Yearly Archives: 2018

Q&A Part 6

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Questions continue in and answers continue out:

A family member of mine was identified by his tattoos over the phone by a coroner. Would we still be allowed to go to the coroner’s office to officially identify him and make sure it’s him?

I am not sure. I allow family viewings in our office, however, we are a smaller jurisdiction.  Some larger jurisdictions simply can’t accommodate that sort of thing and would ask you to have all viewings at the funeral home.  You can ask that the funeral home provide you with an opportunity for a quick family viewing – even without a regular public viewing.

 

My brother died a few months ago of what I think was suspicious accident. I have received the death certificate, but no coroners report. Why would this be?

Did you ask for a coroner’s report?  Also, depending on the jurisdiction, you may have to pay for a copy of the report.  Contact the coroner’s office and ask to review the file.

 

My husband passed away at home and when the coroner came I explained I was his spouse. My mother-in-law called me and told me that “unless I was willing to take financial responsibility for his burial, I need to call the coroner to tell them that I lied about being his wife.” I listened to her. It broke my heart to lie about not being his wife and I am feeling kind of helpless. Please help me to understand why I should have lied and what is going on?

If you are indeed his wife, you should be listed as such on the death certificate.  You also need to make sure you have certified copies of death certificates because any minor children are able to receive social security benefits.  Call the coroner, tell them your MIL told you to lie about being married and make sure your rights/properties are protected.  I’m not sure what the family dynamics have been that have led up to this – but, you do need to make sure you and your childrens’ assets are protected.  Life insurance and social security benefits and all of those things will matter.  If you are in fact married – make sure you are on the death certificate as his wife…even if that means accepting financial burden for his disposition expenses.

 

Why would a medical examiner keep the leg bones of the deceased person? The state is Florida.

Without knowing more facts, I can only guess.  There is a lot of DNA to possibly take out of the long bones of the legs.  It might be for future studies.  It might be for research.  I honestly don’t know.

 

I’ve been highly interested in becoming a Coroner and was wondering what I need to do to start that career? I am currently a freshman in college studying behavioral neuroscience. What should I change my degree to? I’ve done research on becoming a coroner but would like to know from someone who has already been down the road to help me with making a beneficial decision.
 

You can stay with behavioral neuroscience. I would assume there is a lot of biology to that – plus, understanding behavior is something beneficial to this career.  As a coroner, you only need to get elected.  I would say to try to get involved in your local politics – join various campaigns and whatnot – learn how the ins/outs work, meet people in your local political arena and start building those relationships.  That being said –  your college major seems good to me.

 

As a side note, you should really consider by-passing being a coroner and go straight to being a forensic pathologist.  There is a shortage and as forensic pathologists retire – the shortage is becoming greater.  The future really is in forensic pathology.

 

If some one collapsed in the bath and drowned, CPR is performed but no response, and the person dies. At autopsy, would coroner’s check for carbon monoxide? Would you know if carbon monoxide was the cause of the collapse due to CPR for 2 hours?

 

CO is a separate and specific test and we would most likely not test for it in this circumstance.  However, if the body had cherry-red lividity, an indicator of CO poisoning, we would test for it.  If, while at the scene, something made us suspect CO, we would have the fire department come out and do a particle test to record CO levels.  CPR would not impact the CO level in the blood if CO was present and the cause.

 

A post mortem tissue sample of a two month old baby showed a trace of methamphetamine. Could that trace have been from ingestion during pregnancy?
No.

 

Now, was the child breastfed?  Methamphetamine might be on a tox screen in a two-month old who was breastfed

 

Hi, if a person drowns in a vat of motor oil, what happens to the body? How quickly does it decompose? Faster or slower than drowning in water? Would a body drowned in motor oil float to the surface? 
 

If a person drowns in motor oil – what happens to the body?  The person dies from oil being introduced into the respiratory and circulatory systems.
How quickly does it decompose?  It would vary on the size of the body, the temperature of the oil, etc.  In room temperature – I would think decomposition would be slowed.  Probably slower than water, but I don’t know.
Would a body drowned in oil float to the surface?  It might after decomposition caused enough gases to build up in the body.  And it would probably be affected by the viscosity of the oil….5W40 vs 10W40 and so on and so forth…

 

Author here, currently writing and I was wondering if labs would be able to pull a positive test for coke from a dead body that had been out in the open for about a week? Would that result also be influenced by how long that person had been using, say fairly regularly for about 6 months?

 

Coke (assuming you are referencing cocaine) would be detectable in toxicology.  Depending on the nature of the body – the levels may have to come from the liver or brain if the body is decomposed.  We couldn’t tell 6 months of cocaine – but, if there are high levels of benzoylecgonine in the urine – it is usually a strong indictor of chronic use.

 

If someone were to be diagnosed as terminal with liver disease, would there be obvious, unmistakable evidence of that during the autopsy once they passed? What in particular would verify or confirm that a person had liver disease during an autopsy?

 

Absolutely.  The diseased liver is generally yellow in color if it is diseased.  It may be smaller or bigger – depending on the disease.  It may be ‘slippery’ which means it is very fatty.  It may have nodules/bumps on it.  The liver is very easy to recognize disease in.
Does skin on hands and or feet prune or wrinkle if exposed to water after death?
Yes.

 

My friends MIL passed away in her sleep after a lengthy illness (COPD). Since she died alone, they automatically took her body to the coroner’s office. I believe they were waiting for her medical records to see if she needed an autopsy or not. My friends MIL didn’t have any money (and neither do her children) for any kind of burial etc. They are under the impression that the coroner’s office will automatically cremate her body and only charge a small fee when they pick up the remains ($50 or so). Is this common practice?

 

No.  Nothing of this seems like common practice.  That being said, everywhere is different.  I am guessing they will not do an autopsy for someone with a documented history of COPD.  The body will then be released to a funeral home or cremation service that the family chooses.  This is all separate from the coroner’s office.  The coroner can authorize a cremation and often charges a fee to do so (for us it is $50, but this fee varies); however, there is no system where the coroner will directly cremate a decedent.

 

I had my toenails cliped to be tested for poison at a lab. Well they called and said UPS said they had an outage. And my toenails made it to lab but was never taken off the truck. I had them to return my toenails to me.  They are still in the package and taped. They said they were not sure if they would be good due to they where in a high degree heat in UPS truck for a week. That was in  june of 2015. I believe this was deliberate. I still have them unopen. I believe  2010 – 2013 my food and water was being tamper with. Can the toenails still be tested today. And how accurate would result be?
 

I am sitting here asking myself so many questions. What is going on?  Is this real life?  Why, if you believe you were being poisoned in 2010-2013 did you wait until 2015 to send your toenails to a lab?  And if they were returned to you, why would you hold on to them for almost 3 years?  This is a question only the lab you are working with can answer.

 

Does blood from a cut look different than blood from a hemorrhage under a microscope. I am researching a missing person case. Blood was found in the home. When they looked it they said it was from a natural hemorrhage. I was wondering what the difference is. 

 

I am struggling to understand your question completely – the blood from a cut would be a hemorrhage. Also, the only ‘natural hemorrhage’ I can think of is menses (period) blood…. in which case, yes, they could tell that difference.  There is no other circumstance of ‘naturally hemorrhaging’ that I can even think of that would produce blood outside the body without concern.  I hope this helps.

 
 

We have a pile of questions from the last few weeks that we are working on now. If it has been a while since you have submitted a question, and haven’t received a reply, send an email to askacoroner@gmail.com. Thanks for your interest and patience! 

Talking about Donation

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Our Coroner, Jacquie, is passionate about many things, and donation is definitely high priority on her list. She (and our awesome book) was recently featured by the Gift of Hope in their Forensic Connection publication. Check out the article below.

If you would like to learn more about organ and tissue donation, or read more of these newsletters, please head over to Gift of Hope’s website.

Q&A Part 5 1

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Questions continue to pour in, and we love having them to keep us busy! Thanks to all who submit, and a special thanks to our coroner who dutifully answers each and every one of them. If you have any questions of your own, feel free to submit them on the site, or send an email to askacoroner@gmail.com.

Now, on to the next round of questions and answers:

This is probably an odd question, but my niece passed away recently.Hher mother is a drug addict the baby was a drug baby. I am having a hard time believing she died from SIDS. When she was found, she was cold, blue and had a mark on her face. I’ve heard SIDS babies don’t turn blue. Is this true? Do you think my niece died from SIDS?

Was the baby bed sharing with her addict mother at the time of her passing?  This is most likely an accidental asphyxiation due to rollover by high/addicted mother. I doubt it was SIDS – but, that may be what mom tells people to avoid the issues associated. Without knowing more, I really can’t say for certain.

 

How often do you find a parasite in someone’s stomach?

I’ve never found a parasite in someone’s stomach.  However, I don’t live in the areas where it might be more common.

 

Can a primary cause of death be listed as “Influenza” only?

If the primary cause of death is Influenza, then it is most appropriate, yes.

 

At anytime would an Autopsy be performed from the back?

Yes. There is sometimes dissection done on the back and spine – especially in child abuse situations.

 

My brothers tox screen showed a level of tramadol of 5,660 ng and the “therapeutic range” is 200-700. The coroner ruled it ‘suspect’ and left the death manner as “undetermined”. Could they have determined it a suicide or accidental? Where do we go from here? We don’t know how to determine if he had a high tolerance or intent. The ng values are confusing.

That is a very high level – and I suspect that if he regularly used tramadol, that it was more of an accidental death. If he didn’t regularly use it and just took a lot of the pills  – I’d be more inclined to think suicide.  Obviously, the coroner didn’t know either and put “undetermined” for the manner because it could not be determined.

 

Do coroners routinely scan (human) bodies for the same kind of ID chip that some animals get? I read a news story a few years ago about people voluntarily getting RFID chips implanted – in one case it was to verify their identity and age at a bar.

No, we don’t check.  No Coroner that I have ever met checks, either.

 

So, my step daughter had a drug problem. She had been missing and her body was found in a secluded area, in her car, with the windows up and doors locked. This is in NC and the weather here was in the 80s. The detective said it looked like she had been there for a while. Her body was badly decomposed so we had to send dental records. The detective on scene said that one tattoo on her forearm was still noticble. My question is, will they ever be able to tell us how long she had expired? The detective said it looked like she has reclined the driver’s seat back to sleep and her cause of death was because she overdosed. We had heard she has been into a drug called “china white.” We had no idea she was doing that kind of drug. My daughter weighed 105lbs. Due to her small size and weather, did that speed up the decomp process? We were told toxicology can take up to 4 months? What will this tell us?  Will they be able to tell what drugs were in her system? They didnt allow us to see her body due to how bad it was decomposed and all items in the car she had with her were destroyed. 

I’m sorry for the death of your step daughter.  I will do my best to answer your questions:
1.  China White is a type of heroin – much stronger than heroin – it’s actually called Alpha Methylfentanyl and it is one of the Fentanyl derivatives.  It is extremely potent and a 105lb person could easily die from a small amount of this drug.
2.  I doubt they can tell you, based on the condition of her body, how long she was there.  That would most likely have to be determined by her last known purchases (receipts) or “last seen alive” times to give you some sort of window for determining post mortem interval.
3.  The warm weather inside a closed vehicle absolutely would have increased her rate of decomposition.
4.  I could see, in larger areas, where toxicology of this sort (many/unknown substances) could take up to 4 months.
5.  The toxicology report will tell you everything that is in her blood at the time of the death.  However, because of her decomposition, they may have had to test brain or liver tissue for toxicology (often there is no viable blood left to test in a decomposed body) which could also lead to the extended time for testing.
6.  Yes, they can tell…even with the advanced decomposition, what her toxicology levels were at the time of death.  There will be some slight changes due to post mortem distribution (levels changing after death), but it will be slight.
7.  I’m sorry they wouldn’t let you see her body.  I don’t agree with that and I always let families view bodies if they wish to – I simply take the time to prepare them for what they will see.
I hope some of these answers help you.

 

My friend hung them self, they kicked a chair out from under them. Did they suffer? No one ever let me see them afterwards. From what I have read it’s not always an easy way to go. Do the eyes really pop out of the head? Does the tongue really swell up and turn blue? They were found within five hours. I have all these questions but no answers. What is it like when someone strangle some salve? Or hangs themselves? I read that people can break their jaw. Was there anyway if he was found within 60 minutes that he could’ve been saved?
Hanging is a fairly quick death, actually.  Did they suffer?  I don’t know.  The eyes do not pop out.  The tongue is usually out, clenched between the teeth and swollen – very common due to hanging.  Jaws aren’t broken in a hanging.  During a hanging, the blood supply is cut off from the head – so, oxygenated blood can’t reach the brain, and the unoxygenated blood can’t leave the brain (all due to the pressure on the carotid artery and jugular veins respectively).  So, hanging is an asphyxiation death – but, because of blood flow.  The person usually passes out in a few seconds and death occurs within minutes after that.    He could not have been saved if he was found an hour later.  Not even 15 minutes later.  I’m very sorry about your friend.

 

If a parasite is found inside a body during autopsy, is this something the coroner researches (i.e goes about identifying it, understanding what the parasite does, etc.) or is this outsourced to someone who specializes in epidemiology? When it comes to parasites, bacteria, viruses, etc., how far does a coroner go on their own with research wise before having to get other personnel involved?
It varies.  We use outside specialists on a case-by-case basis as needed.  We go until we have answers.  So, we wouldn’t just say, “there was some sort of parasite found in the brain” and move on.  We would research who could give us the best answers for figuring out what it was – then determine whether or not it is a public crisis of any sort and take appropriate steps.  We once found a weird spot on a man’s lung, and after quite a process, we discovered it was active Tuberculosis! We had to have the health department go to his home and they treated the entire family.  So, we absolutely keep going until we have answers….there are many, many resources at our disposal.

 

In cases of really messy scenes (large amounts of blood, fluids, etc.) why don’t the Coroners and Police Officers clean it up? It’s not fair that the people left behind should have to clean up a horrific mess. 
First, I am very sorry if you were left to clean up a mess of that sort on your own. It isn’t the Police’s “job” to clean up biohazard from a scene – they aren’t trained for it and don’t have resources for proper disposal. The Coroner also isn’t expected to clean up. I, personally, clean up within reason, anything that I can clean. I certainly can’t clean things like stained upholstery on a scene. That being said, we DO have resources for companies that handle biohazard scenes. What should happen is that the police and/or coroner address that matter with you and help you with names and contacting proper companies to get the job done properly. It shouldn’t be left to you to figure out on your own. I’m sorry for you, or anyone who has had a situation like that handled so poorly.

 

I have an interest in becoming a coroner and I was wondering what your major was in highschool and the level of education required.
I addressed this to much greater depth in our book, Spoiler Alert: You’re Gonna Die, but here’s the short answer: To be a coroner you simply have to get elected.  So, you want enough of a background that makes you ‘electable’.  My degree is in mortuary science.  I didn’t have a major in high school – just general studies.  Any combination of studies in human biology, mortuary science, criminal justice, political science, etc. would be best.

 

What was your first reaction to smelling a dead body?
My first reaction was nothing. I was trying to make the people around me know that I could handle it – so, I didn’t show any reaction.  However, it was rather off-putting.

 

 Can “acute alcohol poisoning” cause death? I know someone who recently died, but the coroner said that the cause of death was unknown. The coroner’s autopsy noted that the BAC found wasn’t fatal, but did amount to acute alcohol poisoning. There was also mention in his report of possible adverse effects of alcohol and nicotine on the heart. Can “acute alcohol poisoning” cause death? Is this a case of alcohol quite possibly being the cause even though the coroner couldn’t prove it?
Acute alcohol poisoning can cause death – definitely.  And, in the case of someone who doesn’t drink and doesn’t have much tolerance, a lower than average level of alcohol could prove to be fatal.

 

What does it mean on an autopsy report if it states “Thymus is not Identified”?
It means the person is over 20/25 years old.  Each person is born with a large thymus gland which aides in developing our immune systems.  This gland shrinks as we age and our immunities develop.  So, by the time a person is young adult – they don’t have a thymus gland anymore.  So, the doctor was simply stating that for this person’s age – they don’t have a thymus gland.

 

Ask a Coroner Q&A – Part 4 3

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Hey everyone! We’re back for another round of questions from you all, answered by our favorite Coroner, Jacquie.

 

If cadaveric spasm occurs in a body, will the affected muscles/muscle groups be the first to relax when the body enters secondary relaxation phase?

I’m not sure to be honest.  This sounds logical though.

 

I read that some of the London Grenfell Tower fire victims’ cause of death was “inhalation of fire fumes” and other victims’ cause of death was “smoke inhalation.” What is the difference?

The amount of charring (thermal injury).  Breathing in fire with fumes causes much more damage than breathing in just smoke.

 

My best friend has recently received the autopsy report for her nephew that passed back in March. She has the entire log, but she’s having a problem identifying one of the markings the coroner wrote on the diagram of his body. His back, arms etc. all have markings that have “contusion, lacerations etc” beside them. But the medical examiner marked IOC beside a cut on his leg near the ankle and we are unsure as to what it means. On the phone before we got the paper work, the medical examiner told us that he had a cut on his ankle that needed medical attention prior to death. But we want to know what “IOC” means. Thanks.

Intraosseous Catheter is what that would mean to me.  It’s essentially an IV in the bone on the shin.

 

Sorry if this is personal, but do Coroner’s get paid a lot?

Not too personal at all.  Each county is different and each jurisdiction is different. I know of some coroners in very small, rural areas who make about $10K each year, and I know some other coroners in larger, more urban areas who make over $100K per year.  It varies so much that there is no good answer here.  I currently make about $60K and am hoping for an increase with the next election cycle.  Our salaries are set for 4 years before we ever take office.

 

I read a magazine ad that makes it sound like we need to buy a necessary product, because the vast majority of people die with their intestines full of sludge (which prevented proper digestion and caused every ailment known to man). Is it true? Is intestinal or colon sludge common or “normal”, and is it a problem?

Save your money.

 

Why won’t the Coroner’s office call me back?

Obviously I can’t answer that.  I’m sorry they won’t.  If there’s something I can do to help facilitate answers for you – please let me know.

 

My father died from end stage emphysema. When he died, he turned solid white and he looked so young. He was 75. Is this common for a person to turn white like that? I mean, when he had a crisis, he turned blue and almost purple. I thought that might be the case when he died, but it was not. Both of my parents were in the same hospital room when he died, and then she died a day later. There is so much more I could write and say about this, but I just don’t have the energy. However, I haven’t been able to find anything about a person turning solid white upon death, and was hoping maybe I could find an answer here. 

After a long death process, this makes sense.  The person is lying on their back…blood is flowing…albeit at a slower and slower and slower rate…until death happens and all-at-once, the blood simply settles.  It is no longer flowing.  He appeared white rapidly on the front of his body – but, I am confident his back would have been much more pink in color due to the quick settling of the blood from a long death process.  I’m sorry your parents both died so close to each other.  It sounds like they couldn’t live without each other.

 

Question my son recently died and I recieved the toxicology report. He had an ethanol level of 0.23g % and Benzoylecgonine level of 510ng/ml. Cocaine was not detected. Cocaethylene was less than 25ng/ml. I have a hard time believing that my son was able to hang himself. He died from hanging but it was an unattended death and his girlfriend said she found him and cut him down. No autopsy was performed and I want to make sure that there isn’t foul play due to the fact that his girlfriend wasn’t home until 4am and my son died at 4:50am within the hour of her coming home. Can it be proven that he did cocaine that night? With that level of Benzoylecgonine?

Benzoylecgonine is what the body turns cocaine into.  It shows chronic use – not current use.  Cocaethylene is what the body metabolizes from cocaine and alcohol together.  Again – it doesn’t show acute use unless the cocaine is actually in the blood – which it appears it wasn’t.  I don’t believe he had recent cocaine use (meaning within hours of death).  Also, the time of death is most likely after paramedics/police arrive on scene…and not the actual time of his death which would have been minutes after actually hanging himself.  I’m so sorry you lost your son to suicide. I do not believe the girlfriend could have staged his death to appear to be a suicide by hanging.

 

How should you address a coroner in an official letter?

The Honorable (First Name) (Last name)

or,

(First Name) (Last Name), County Coroner

or,

Coroner (First Name, Last Name)
or,
Coroner (Last Name)
or,
“Hey, you….”
We aren’t picky.

I just received a copy of my grandmother’s death certificate. The cause of death was listed as: “Intestinal toxemia causing heart failure.” If she were to die today, what would a coroner list as the cause of death?

Probably:  Heart Failure due to Ischemic Bowel.

 

Imagine a person is killed by overdose. As they die, can they spell out the letters of the killer in sign language, and somehow hold that position after death?
What?  No.

 

Does an overdose of heroin and fentanyl cause bleeding from the mouth?
It causes fluid to back up in the lungs which will ultimately come out the mouth and nose.  It is usually blood mixed with a watery fluid and it is usually frothy looking due to the air in the lungs.  This is referred to as a “foam cone”.  Short answer, yes, it is quite common to see what appears to be bleeding from the mouth in an opiate overdose.

 

If a person was in a freezer dead for about 24hrs, how long would it take examiners to determine if the person was raped?
However much time it takes for the sexual assault kit to be analyzed, frozen body or not.  If there is trauma from the rape, that would be noted at autopsy.

 

While doing an autopsy is there tell tale signs death was due to smothering/strangulation?
Smothering – sometimes, mostly yes.
Strangulation – yes.
Without knowing your intent with this question, I am hesitant to give away too much detail.

 

How long does it take to die in a freezer?
Minutes.  It depends on the size of the person and the size of the freezer.

 

My brother died on August 3rd, 2017 and the coroner stated they couldn’t find the reason for his death because he was dead/decade for 24 hours. Why is this?
Without knowing more, my guess is that your brother had an electrical issue with his heart.  The heart can stop suddenly due to an electrical issue.  Not saying he was electrocuted, but that the current that made his heart beat may have been working improperly.  We can’t see electrical issues at death.  His heart would have to be sent to a cardiopathologist for the best answers.  Sudden death is almost always due to a heart issue.  If they didn’t see anything at autopsy or looking under a microscope at heart tissue, it was most likely a conductivity issue.

 

Can a parent request no pubic information of her grown son’s death be unsearchable so that no police reports ,medical forms, 911 calls, corners report’s be found? 
In my state, no.  I am not sure if it varies state-by-state. Generally, deaths, including the circumstances surrounding the death is considered a public health matter and is available to the public for public interest.

 

My husband and I have a 15 yr old daughter who is aspiring to be a coroner. She asked for a dissection kit and we talked to her teacher about what to buy and so forth. Do you have any advice? Is it creepy or abnormal for a young girl to be interested and know so much about the human body and anatomy from a young age? 
Encourage her to be a forensic pathologist – not a coroner.  The demand will be great and she will be financially secure!  Coroners are elected and the job market is limited to regions.  However, a forensic pathologist – the doctor who performs the autopsies – can go anywhere and consistently be in demand.  Definitely encourage her.  And no it’s not weird – it’s awesome to know what you love and have a plan.